Coming changes

Rosleen

Veteran
Supporter
May 31, 2015
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Copenhagen, Denmark
This will be controversial, but it almost seems perm map (and its mining map) should be dropped, carry on with Vanilla and new Seasonal map (with perks) with 1.17/1.18 update. The biggest issue for vanilla would be how to handle updates.

I realize that somewhat contradicts my previous statement. but a slim perk perm map is close to what we have on Vanilla now. Not same, but close.

Like I've said earlier, that would fit part of our player base well, and exclude some entirely.
 

Rosleen

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May 31, 2015
2,953
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Copenhagen, Denmark
I feel the need to reiterate that the intention for this setup isn't that everybody feels like both maps speaks to their playstyle, but rather that we manage to include options for as many of the Hangout people as possible.

So if you feel like you could see yourself playing on one of the two maps - but not the other, That is exactly what we are trying to achieve.
 

Toonies

Veteran
Supporter
May 31, 2015
483
538
Denmark
I feel the need to reiterate that the intention for this setup isn't that everybody feels like both maps speaks to their playstyle, but rather that we manage to include options for as many of the Hangout people as possible.

So if you feel like you could see yourself playing on one of the two maps - but not the other, That is exactly what we are trying to achieve.

This is a best case scenario, ya'll.

We don't all get special little booties that fit us perfectly. We gotta squeeze into the ones that fit us best. We were all doing it before, but the options are more limited now.

press the button barry
 

WearyWalker

Veteran
May 31, 2015
2,145
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Southport, UK
hangoutmc.com
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Yes it should not be a problem to have downloads of deleted worlds available for your own personal enjoyment.

One option was to remove all worlds and just have the existing Permanent with mining on the same map but in a far off location. That takes away the need to update every plugin on every separate map as each separate map is in fact a separate server, it takes time and even more when updates go wrong, plugins break, stop being developed etc. It's not just a case of hit update and all worlds update.

I started Hangouts quite a few years ago with one map, then moved onto using a plugin for multiworlds but it wasn't reliable, things broke, all worlds shared the same mob cap etc, it wasn't the best experience for multiple players online at the same time. My daughter was a baby then, she slept a lot as she got older she needs more of my attention. Steve came along with his much more vast skills with servers etc. and this is where we are at today. I don't do an awful lot now, it's easier for one person with the skills but it takes time, Steve doesn't have the same amount of time he used to have, life and work change over the years. It costs more in money and time.

Less maps = less time updating and fixing. Spigot/paper/waterfall actually get updates very frequently, sometimes every few days. These updates can fix and also break things.

Permanent as has been said caters for the more casual slower/less play time player but players with more time on there hands can still play on there. I actually half moved to permanent but sometimes I have the time to play but don't, something is not giving me the draw to play but I always like the first few weeks/months of a reset. I've even played on the Vanilla server but got to a point were the draw to play diminished after a while.

Seasonal with less perks and a bit harder gives me a bit of an eagerness to play if I get fed up it will eventually reset again and I can start over. I don't think I'm the only one who feels the same. Resets of maps always brings in a lot more players and slowly people stop playing again, they get a bit bored. Reset happens and more people are back for a while.

We can't please everyone all of the time. I can see both sides of the map setup argument but we are trying to find the middle ground.

(It must have taken me an hour to write this, with child and wife interruptions.)
 

Krunn

Seasoned
Supporter
Nov 7, 2018
72
42
53
i Understand that due to costs that we have to downsize but i think that vanilla should be the permanent map. Some very big builds on there , thousands of person hours went into each one
 

Rosleen

Veteran
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May 31, 2015
2,953
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Copenhagen, Denmark
i Understand that due to costs that we have to downsize but i think that vanilla should be the permanent map. Some very big builds on there , thousands of person hours went into each one

The exact same argument can be made for Permanent though. I understand the hours spent, and it's not ideal that we have to cut something. We are simply trying to make a setup that fit everyone.
 

Gnazghoul

Seasoned
Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
56
22
Krunn said:
i Understand that due to costs that we have to downsize but i think that vanilla should be the permanent map. Some very big builds on there , thousands of person hours went into each one
The exact same argument can be made for Permanent though. I understand the hours spent, and it's not ideal that we have to cut something. We are simply trying to make a setup that fit everyone.

Can the builds on vanilla be moved to permanent ?
 

TiggerBlueMom

Staff
Staff member
Supporter
May 9, 2017
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Lombard, IL, USA
The reason we are talking about keeping Permanent and not Vanilla is because it is the server that members are the most active on. Vanilla has never has a ton of activity on it, so keeping it over Permanent just does not make sense.

The reason we are talking about not having as many perks on seasonal is partially to try and slow things down so that people will be active on seasonal longer. The contingent of people who like seasonal the most also seem to be the same ones that play hard and get everything done fast, and then are ready to move on to the next map.
 

EP43

Seasoned
Feb 27, 2019
223
171
Arizona USA
I completely understand, input was requested and I saw an idea/suggestion that I agree with, and wanted to voice that.

I assume the staff has discussed this more so than we all have in this post, and the 'business decision" that has to be made is made.

Thank you Steve and Barry for all the time, effort and diligence in keeping the server top notch! And all the staff that support, and of course all the players that make this a great community!
 

PinkPanther

Seasoned
Supporter
Nov 2, 2018
88
60
I believe the lovely Avril (@Amaris3004) already has a copy of my Vanilla house - mind you that was October 2020 - so I'd forgive her if she has binned it by now :D

I'm cool with whatever, as long as there is a copy of my house (which is crappy btw - just in case anyone got the idea that it was a superior build lol)

And SOMEDAY I might even get time to actually play!
 
Sep 29, 2020
41
68
51
Iowa, USA
May I ask about the rationale of a mining map for Permanent? Poking around on the forums, it seems that the purpose of a mining map used to be that it was reset every month or so. But with the previous reorg (which is when I started), the permanent mining map was never reset.

As current Vanilla is "build anywhere, mine anywhere", why would that not be desirable for the new Permanent? Does it have to do with aesthetics, or territory disputes, or...?

None of this is advocating for one way over another; it's just satisfying my curiosity. :)
 

xiphoid24

Seasoned
Aug 30, 2017
130
123
35
I believe it has to do with aesthetics and limited resources. The perm world has a limited amount of space and is to be slightly expanded with version updates that modify work generation.

Vanilla has no boundaries. If an area is completely mined out you can just travel as far away as you like to build or mine yourself.

The differences between them (world with bounds and limitless) has to do with the dynamic map. It takes a lot of resources to generate the map. The larger the world the more images get generated and the more hard drive space it takes up. We can limit the amount of hard drive usage by limiting the size of the world.
 

EP43

Seasoned
Feb 27, 2019
223
171
Arizona USA
I would assume the perma mining map would be reset for updates when it is necessary for new items. I believe that is a standing question, answered, but not yet confirmed.
 
Last edited:

CBenni

Seasoned
Supporter
Jun 3, 2020
127
163
28
I was told perma mining will never be reset, just the teleports moved further out as new updates get released and the area explored/mined out
We were told to build our farms (especially nether based ones) in mining, as the perma nether is tiny.
 

EP43

Seasoned
Feb 27, 2019
223
171
Arizona USA
yup, I recall being told something like that as well. And now were being told things are changing and that is something that might change as well.... see post 4 and 6 in this thread.

I myself have accepted this MC fate some time ago. Maybe its a reset, or a server shutdown, or people just drift away. But eventually, its something.
 

Gnazghoul

Seasoned
Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
56
22
i would still like to know if stuff can be moved out of vanilla and onto permanent. :)
 

EnergonCandy

Seasoned
Feb 9, 2019
51
48
I think shortening the number of maps to Permanent and Seasonal is a great idea in order to try and trim things down, while still having options that can cater to the most people. I may be biased though, since both options sound good to me personally with how I enjoy playing on servers. I love the fact that I can take my time on Permanent because I'm a very slow builder. On the other hand, I also really enjoy adventuring without doing much building and would have fun doing that on Seasonal with the added challenges. :)

When it comes to the perks, the suggestions for each map seem reasonable enough. I would definitely miss the grave mod for Seasonal though, especially if playing on Hard mode. I suppose if it's something that would hinder players' enjoyment who are looking for more challenging play, then I can understand nixing it.
 
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